In this episode of Down the Middle, Peter Mallouk takes on the role of interviewer as Jonathan Clements shares a significant life update. Through their personal and candid conversation, listeners will gain both an inspirational outlook and practical advice.
Hosted by Creative Planning’s Director of Financial Education, Jonathan Clements, and President, Peter Mallouk, this podcast takes a closer look into topics that affect investors. Included are in-depth discussions on financial planning issues, the economy and the markets. Plus, you won’t want to miss each of their monthly tips!
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Transcript:
Jonathan Clements: This is Jonathan Clements, Director of Financial Education for Creative Planning. With me is Peter Mallouk, President of the firm, and we are Down the Middle. The words of Monty Python’s John Cleese, and now for something completely different. Today, Peter and I are going to talk about, well, me. Those who follow me on social media and read my articles will know that I’ve been diagnosed with lung cancer. The outlook is not good. The cancer is the result of a relatively rare genetic mutation. There’s only one viable treatment plan, and it’s not terribly promising. In fact, there’s a decent chance I have just 12 okay months left. Peter, usually on these podcasts, I ask the questions and you offer up your wise counsel, but today, we’ll need to reverse roles. So Peter, what would you like to ask me?
Peter Mallouk: Well, first, I know Jonathan, that you announced this… Obviously you shared it with me a while ago, but you announced it on social media and your website recently, and the outpouring of support from the public, your followers and your peers at the Wall Street Journal and the enormous financial community online, it’s clear how you are thought of in this space as a wise, calm voice of reasoning and a steady hand and how many people follow you intently. And so it was really good to see the well-deserved outpouring of support. And I’m sure many listeners today are shocked as they’re hearing about this for the first time. So I know you have thousands and thousands of people rooting for you and pulling for you, and I just want you to know that, you know it, but I want you to hear it. And it’s been incredible, the indirect outpouring I’m hearing about you and the people thinking about you.
So this is going to be different as you proposed me asking you some questions. And the first one would be, well, you’re the king of enjoy your money and live a good life and all of those things. So I imagine there is not a lot of second-guessing yourself about your approach to all of this. So how do you look ahead with the diagnosis you’ve laid out and the treatment you’re going to be going through? And how do you look at the next few months knowing as you say that it’s just not promising?
Jonathan Clements: So in the period since I started telling people that I have terminal cancer, people have said, “Aren’t you angry? Don’t you feel cheated? Don’t you ask why it was you who was picked out? Aren’t you looking around the country to find the best possible treatment plan?” And I’m not going down any of those rabbit holes. I see no point in being angry. That’s just going to use up mental energy in the months ahead. I feel no point in saying I feel cheated. Again, what’s that going to do for me? Meanwhile, why did I get this genetic mutation? I’ll never know. And again, why waste mental energy on that? And as for the treatment plan, I mean, I’ve been getting, as you might imagine, Peter, all kinds of advice. “Go to this cancer center, go to that cancer center, try this treatment.” The fact is what I have, for those who care to Google it, it’s called EGFR Exon 20. It’s a genetic mutation and there is only one viable treatment plan, and it’s not a very good one.
So given there’s only one plan, it’s approved by the FDA back in March, why cast around for other things that won’t be helpful? Why waste my remaining time looking for a cure that simply doesn’t exist? In any case, because it’s stage four cancer, there is no cure. All you can hope to do is contain the cancer. So what am I trying to do with the months ahead? More than anything else, I just want to get the most out of every day. That’s tougher than you might imagine. We’re always getting distracted, even when we’re healthy, by the hassles of every day life, by people who irritate us and so on. And to try and set that aside and enjoy every day to the fullest extent possible is difficult, but that’s what I’m trying to do and hoping to do in the months ahead.
And what I think about what it is that’s going to give me pleasure in the months ahead, there are a number of things. One is I want to spend as much time as I can with the people I love. I still want to do the work that I think is important. I love writing and editing. I have this little website I run. I want to keep running it and keep posting new articles. This is important to me. This is what makes me feel fulfilled, made me feel fulfilled before I was sick and why give it up now? This is the stuff that I really enjoy.
Peter Mallouk: Well, I think it’s telling that what you basically are saying is you’re months ahead or like the months behind you. I think that’s the sign of living a fulfilling life is you’re not changing. You didn’t have this aha moment that you’re waking up and doing the wrong things and want to shift your focus to something else, and I think that’s great.
Jonathan Clements: Yeah. One of the things that Elaine, my wife and I have talked about is doing various trips and we have indeed planned various trips. We’re going to go to Ireland in August. I’m taking the kids and their partners to a resort next month for a night. So we’re going to go to Paris in early October. But in many ways, while these will be special trips and a chance to make new memories, today, honest, exciting to me is doing what I like to do every day. The trips will be fun, but what I do every day, writing, editing, sitting down with Elaine at the end of the day and having a glass of wine, wandering over to my daughter’s house and playing with my grandkids. That’s what I love to do.
Peter Mallouk: And how did your conversation with Elaine and the kids go? How are those unfolding?
Jonathan Clements: So the reason I ended up in the hospital was I was having trouble with my balance. I was walking, I was feeling a little wobbly. And finally on… I think it was Sunday, May 19th, I ended up at the urgent care clinic and the doctor who saw me saw something that I didn’t see. I thought I had an ear infection. I ended up in the emergency room. There, they initially thought that I’d had a minor stroke and I ended up in the neuro hospital with a whole bunch of other stroke victims, except I didn’t have a stroke. What they discovered from the brain MRI and from the abdomen scan that I had lung cancer that had metastasized to my brain, and I got that cancer diagnosis a little over four weeks ago. When I heard that, my son had already flown in from London, my daughter’s here in Philadelphia, I convened a meeting with both my kids and with my son-in-law and with Elaine two days later.
And I just sat down and we went through my estate plan, who would get what? Give them a chance to ask questions and understand why I was divvying it up this way. I really felt it was important to make sure that there was no surprises after the fact, that everybody knew exactly what was going to happen upon my death. That was the first big conversation we had two days after the diagnosis. I like to think, and I hope that that will mean that there are going to be far few questions down the road.
Peter Mallouk: So it sounds like a big part was breaking the news to them, but then laying out how everything’s going to unfold, that was obviously a top priority for you. Is there other things you’re trying to accomplish, think about?
Jonathan Clements: So one of the things that I’ve discovered, one of the biggest surprises of discovering that you’re dying is how busy it is. I never thought that dying was going to be busy, but it is. I thought everything was pretty well organized, but I’ve taken countless steps in recent weeks to try to make things easier for the kids and for Elaine after I die. So for instance, I’ve been closing credit card accounts, taken my checking accounts, I’ve made them joint accounts with Elaine, so they pass directly to her. One of my checking accounts, all the bills are paid out of. So if she has control of that account, she will see all the bills getting paid. So I’ve been taking steps like that. I also had some small accounts. I had an inherited IRA from my father that had $6,000 in it. I was like, “They don’t want to be closing this account after my death and sending a death certificate.” So I just went ahead and liquidated it.
Why leave this problem to them? And there are all kinds of other things that I’m hoping to do in the months ahead. I’m embarrassed to admit that down in the basement, I have every tax return I filed since 1986. And I think I can get rid of all of them, but seven.
Peter Mallouk: Right. Yes, you can. Oh, my God, that’s so funny. Have there been any surprises, from the diagnosis to now? Obviously the diagnosis itself was the mega surprise, but have there been other ones?
Jonathan Clements: There’s been the busyness. And the other thing that has been a surprise about all of this, not a pleasant surprise, is that once you start chemo and there’s also heavy doses of steroids involved, you really never feel like yourself. And one of my fears going forward is that I won’t be able to think as clearly or work as hard as I have in the past. And that sense of sitting in front of the computer and going to write something and feeling, “I’m struggling a little bit here to put those words together,” that’s a little disturbing. I’m hoping once I get through the initial chemo treatments, because I have essentially four weeks of back-to-back treatment, and then it goes to every third week. So through these initial weeks, my body’s really adjusting to all the countless chemicals they’re pouring into me that once I get through that, that maybe things will be a little bit more stable.
I’ve been getting mass doses of steroids and it’s causing insomnia. I find myself falling asleep around 9:00 and often waking up at 2:00 and heading downstairs because I don’t like lying in bed, doing nothing. I also feel this compulsion like there’s so much I want to get done before I’m done, so why not sit on my laptop and get some writing done, do some editing rather than just lie in bed, feeling useless?
Peter Mallouk: I’m sure I’m speaking on behalf of everybody listening, how sorry we are to hear that. First of all, thank you for letting us today talk about you. I know you’re generally a pretty private person, and so I know that you did this because you thought maybe somebody would benefit from hearing what you’re going through. And I think that sums you up. We decided we weren’t going to do the Tip of The Day today, but my Tip of The Day, and I’ll speak for both of us, for our listeners, is to make sure that the people that you love and admire and respect know that. And Jonathan, I will tell you that early in my career, and I shared with you very early in my career, I read everything that you did. You were just such common sense. You were so ahead of your time, you were spotting trends and investing around low cost and passive and so on, way before other people.
And when I look at the people that influenced my investment and planning thinking, it’s you and John Bogle. And actually, you more because you had the investment side and the planning side. And so when I reached out to you and asked if you would do this, and you actually took the call, I was very, very pleasantly surprised. And meeting you for the first time was a highlight of my career. And some of my favorite minutes of the month are when we do this. I think you are truly a living legend in this industry. There are so many people that have followed you, whether it’s in the Wall Street Journal or websites or in social in terms of your tone and you’re thinking. It’s a privilege to do this with you.
When you shared this with me, for our listeners, I said, “Well, what do you want to do?” And you said you want to continue to do this podcast as long as you can. And I’m very, very grateful for that and every minute that we have to do this. Just thank you for really just being who you are and the common sense and voice of reason that you bring to so many to help them make better decisions.
Jonathan Clements: Well, thank you, Peter. That’s very kind. Our collaboration, which I think goes back seven or eight years at this point, has been great. It’s been a wonderful part of my life. This is the Down The Middle podcast, and I don’t think that we can end it on a mawkish note. So I think I have to do the final wrap-up. This is Jonathan Clements, Director of Financial Education for Creative Planning. I’ve been talking to Peter Mallouk, President of the firm, and we are Down the Middle.
Disclaimer: This show is designed to be informational in nature and does not constitute investment advice. Different types of investments involve varying degrees of risk, and there can be no assurance that the future performance of any specific investment or investment strategy, including those discussed on this show, will be profitable or equal any historical performance levels.
